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	<title>Comments on: A Conversation With Loren</title>
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	<description>3500 years of life</description>
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		<title>By: ZM</title>
		<link>http://3500years.com/zsallia/2003/08/30/a-conversation-with-loren/comment-page-1/#comment-124</link>
		<dc:creator>ZM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 May 2004 00:43:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The above comments were first posted on 09/03/2003 prior to being re-posted here today.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The above comments were first posted on 09/03/2003 prior to being re-posted here today.</p>
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		<title>By: MD</title>
		<link>http://3500years.com/zsallia/2003/08/30/a-conversation-with-loren/comment-page-1/#comment-123</link>
		<dc:creator>MD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 May 2004 00:42:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Not that I would wish to be compared to a recent occupant of the White House, but it really does depend upon what your definition of &quot;religion&quot; is.
 
 I posit that religion is a science, first and foremost.  It seeks to explain the unexplained and to broaden the individual&#039;s understanding of his place in the world.  Even the ancient fear cults sought to do this, despite their admitted shortcomings.  With the foundations of critical/empirical thinking laid out, later religions gave birth to modern science, which in turn begat such ideologies as Marxism, Nazism, etc.
 
 Note that what I have stated above is horribly condensed and none-too-thoroughly discussed by any means.  I offer it as a point of conjecture rather than as a purely declarative statement.
 
 What to make of the idea of History as a living, predictive science?  The Marxist science of History is a religion as certainly as is Catholicism, Islam, the Cult of Isis or anything else one might be moved to suggest.
 
 In the broader analysis, religion is a social construct and as such is subject to the foibles of human beings.  It attempts to overcome this with doctrine, ritual, and the promise of rewards to be taken in an after-life by those whose faith remains true.  Religion has provided an absolutely indispensable sense of stability for Man as he progressed from a state of great superstition to that of reasoned analysis.  The journey is far from complete.  If anyone is uncertain on that point I suggest a week of immersion in the news of the world.
 
 Finally, let me clarify something:  I claim neither fearlessness, nor selflessness.  This entire exercise terrifies me nigh unto paralysis.  Were I entirely rational in my choices I would end this today, but I am not entirely rational.  More so than others, certainly, but not entirely, so I continue on because writing here offers me something I crave, something I have not yet fully identified.
 
 Call it hope, if you wish.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not that I would wish to be compared to a recent occupant of the White House, but it really does depend upon what your definition of &#8220;religion&#8221; is.</p>
<p> I posit that religion is a science, first and foremost.  It seeks to explain the unexplained and to broaden the individual&#8217;s understanding of his place in the world.  Even the ancient fear cults sought to do this, despite their admitted shortcomings.  With the foundations of critical/empirical thinking laid out, later religions gave birth to modern science, which in turn begat such ideologies as Marxism, Nazism, etc.</p>
<p> Note that what I have stated above is horribly condensed and none-too-thoroughly discussed by any means.  I offer it as a point of conjecture rather than as a purely declarative statement.</p>
<p> What to make of the idea of History as a living, predictive science?  The Marxist science of History is a religion as certainly as is Catholicism, Islam, the Cult of Isis or anything else one might be moved to suggest.</p>
<p> In the broader analysis, religion is a social construct and as such is subject to the foibles of human beings.  It attempts to overcome this with doctrine, ritual, and the promise of rewards to be taken in an after-life by those whose faith remains true.  Religion has provided an absolutely indispensable sense of stability for Man as he progressed from a state of great superstition to that of reasoned analysis.  The journey is far from complete.  If anyone is uncertain on that point I suggest a week of immersion in the news of the world.</p>
<p> Finally, let me clarify something:  I claim neither fearlessness, nor selflessness.  This entire exercise terrifies me nigh unto paralysis.  Were I entirely rational in my choices I would end this today, but I am not entirely rational.  More so than others, certainly, but not entirely, so I continue on because writing here offers me something I crave, something I have not yet fully identified.</p>
<p> Call it hope, if you wish.</p>
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		<title>By: TheYeti</title>
		<link>http://3500years.com/zsallia/2003/08/30/a-conversation-with-loren/comment-page-1/#comment-122</link>
		<dc:creator>TheYeti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 May 2004 00:42:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://3500years.com/zsallia/?p=78#comment-122</guid>
		<description>The argument that the worst atrocities of mankind are caused by religion are incorrect. 
 
 In the last hundred year, we have the example of Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot to prove it wrong. 
 
 The Nazis were cultists, but their embraced of faith had more to do with a need to justify rather than a need to obey divine law.
 
 We can easily lay the problems of the world at the feet of a statue.  It makes it easier than recognizing the truth. 
 
 Thugs kill and brutalize.  The more power they have, the  more people they kill.  
 
 Religion might have been the easy too for many years, but it was just that, a tool. 
 
 Religion also led the way for a codifying of the principles you take hope from.
 
 The religious impulse may be a sign of man&#039;s weakness, but it is also a great sign of his strength in resisting our destructive impulses.
 
 Humanity bored on a cultural level?  Loren has no respect for curiousity.  Perhaps he knows more than I.  
 
 Or perhaps his misanthropy has blinded him from finding those who do more than sedate themselves and navel gaze. 
 
 10% of a group makes the decisions for the other 90%?  Isn&#039;t that how it always works?  Perhaps Loren should involve himself in that 10% rather than sit back and laugh at the people rowing the boat. 
 
 For that matter, perhaps there&#039;s a kernel of truth in that for the host of the blog?  What better hope than giving hope to others. 
 
 I have enjoyed the comments and the stories.  If fiction, it is well done.  If true, well, then I am unsatisfied. 
 
 Your need to hide for all these years, your brash statements of violence and judgement - if there is no aspect of being a key or having a purpose, than truly, you are living as little more than a most clever animal.
 
 Your fear of discovery and enjoyment of the pleasures you hold are symptoms of nothing less than fear or selfishness. 
 
 Though still interesting.   
 
 Perhaps this is my projection of what I need or want or think I owe. 
 
 But Emerson was no fool.  He understood.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The argument that the worst atrocities of mankind are caused by religion are incorrect. </p>
<p> In the last hundred year, we have the example of Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot to prove it wrong. </p>
<p> The Nazis were cultists, but their embraced of faith had more to do with a need to justify rather than a need to obey divine law.</p>
<p> We can easily lay the problems of the world at the feet of a statue.  It makes it easier than recognizing the truth. </p>
<p> Thugs kill and brutalize.  The more power they have, the  more people they kill.  </p>
<p> Religion might have been the easy too for many years, but it was just that, a tool. </p>
<p> Religion also led the way for a codifying of the principles you take hope from.</p>
<p> The religious impulse may be a sign of man&#8217;s weakness, but it is also a great sign of his strength in resisting our destructive impulses.</p>
<p> Humanity bored on a cultural level?  Loren has no respect for curiousity.  Perhaps he knows more than I.  </p>
<p> Or perhaps his misanthropy has blinded him from finding those who do more than sedate themselves and navel gaze. </p>
<p> 10% of a group makes the decisions for the other 90%?  Isn&#8217;t that how it always works?  Perhaps Loren should involve himself in that 10% rather than sit back and laugh at the people rowing the boat. </p>
<p> For that matter, perhaps there&#8217;s a kernel of truth in that for the host of the blog?  What better hope than giving hope to others. </p>
<p> I have enjoyed the comments and the stories.  If fiction, it is well done.  If true, well, then I am unsatisfied. </p>
<p> Your need to hide for all these years, your brash statements of violence and judgement &#8211; if there is no aspect of being a key or having a purpose, than truly, you are living as little more than a most clever animal.</p>
<p> Your fear of discovery and enjoyment of the pleasures you hold are symptoms of nothing less than fear or selfishness. </p>
<p> Though still interesting.   </p>
<p> Perhaps this is my projection of what I need or want or think I owe. </p>
<p> But Emerson was no fool.  He understood.</p>
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